Talk:The Tier List/@comment-35724435-20180605144330/@comment-28113666-20180611113654

No, I'm not making the same mistake as you, when I said MZ was my hardest hitting unit I was doing it to show you how he isn't a bad unit which is what I thought you were saying. I agree he should not be in the top of the list, but not as low as you were saying.

Broly's DEF will be low with or without Rose. HIs DEF loose is 10% and it applies AFTER passives. Which means that if his DEF is 30k + Rose passive (let's say the result is 45k), after 10 orbs you'll have 0 DEF, and after 6 orbs you'll have around 15-20k, wich is low. On average you will have to take 6 orbs to super. Obviously, with Rose you get 3 ki but I valorate it as the tier list says of "Units are ranked from a general standpoint. The "usefulness" of a unit may vary from player to player based on their collection of units.", which means that links have to take place and not supports.

You have said that the usual is 17k for Gotenks. I think you choose PHYtenks for that (who has a DEF loos as well), I meant the TEQ one, for me, under himself and SS3 Angelku, without dupes and SA1 (so no bottom right), he is around 20k without supports. So I supposed that 100% would be around 30k, my bad for taking dupes in account.

"From personal experience, I can tell you that Super 17 is significantly behind MV as far as output is concerned. I have 1 dupe in mine and he can barely reach 1 mil at full power. Not to say that's unimpressive or smth, but Janemba(who you mentioned), Omega, Cooler, Angel Frieza, Kid Buu, SSj3 Broly can all get there w/o dupes, and some of them are arguably better tanks than him(not Broly lol). Meanwhile my unduped MV can reach around 1.4~1.6 mil depending on Ki multiplier. And no, MV does not have below average defensive capability, mine has around 59k DEF w/ Rosé's on rotation, which is about twice the DEF of most non tanking units on 120% teams, simply by virtue of having LR-stats. As such, I don't really think Super 17 can compete w/ MV for 'Best Extreme-AGL', but him, Turles and OG Rosé are runner ups.". You say that because MV has higher damage (which is true) and has good DEF stat, he's better. So you are actually comparing them. 17 is better defensively so it depends on what you need, DEF isn't as powerful as damage reduction, you can check that in SBR.

PD: This wiki is so annoying, I had to rewrite this 3 times until I could send it.

PPD: Gilaad seems to hate me lol.