Talk:Apex of Supreme Saiyan Power Super Saiyan 4 Goku/@comment-36404468-20190714084243/@comment-36503390-20190714235131

Goku starts with ATK in his passive but massively raises DEF on both Supers and only raises ATK at 18 ki. Vegeta starts with DEF in his passive and massively raises ATK with both Supers, raising DEF with only his 18 ki. Again, it really depends.