Board Thread:Fun and Games/@comment-27996636-20171206104646/@comment-26510251-20180103081559

NegativeSymptom wrote:

KaiserTrigger wrote: Jiren had no trouble fighting SSBKK Goku without even sweating, but a weaker stamina troubled Goku is helping to make him sweat? Nah. Goku was stated to be stronger since his fight with Jiren so he would be much better, and clearly has his stamina back if he was able to use SSB several times in the last few episodes.

It was the exact same with Kafla. People say she only did so well because Goku was tired even though he clearly had recovered since he was able to use SSBKK. SSB drains stamina, and Kaioken heavily exhausts the user. Goku used SSBKK x20 SEVERAL times during his fight with Jiren, he would be much more tired during that fight than the one during Kafla. This is the same case here, there's no way Goku is exhausted at this point, if he were, he wouldnt even be able to go SSJ with how many times he's used blue since his fight with Kafla. Again, I'd need an actual quote, as in who said that. Because if it's from guys like Roshi, Krillin, ETC, it doesn't count... They can't sense god ki or anything like it. He doesn't have all his stamina back, as stated when he went UI against Kefla. It was stated in episode, by Whis I think. The point is that Jiren didn't have any trouble at all. Goku didn't fight Jiren evenly or closely until he started using SSBKK and that was just slightly better. The point is that his strength is not max power right now, but was far far closer when he first used UI, and being reenergized by the spirit bomb to be closer, until the heat was lost. When Goku fought Jiren, even in UI, Jiren did not sweat. He wasn't looking worried no matter what. Not even against a SSBKK Goku who had learned to far better save stamina with SSB, and not even break out any major Kaioken's until he fought Jiren. He didn't break any sweat.

Now he's breaking a sweat because a Goku who's not even using Kaioken, is still not at full power due to wasting energy fighting other people since his first fight with Jiren, is giving him trouble alongside Vegeta? As if.

Goku is not even close yet to what he did with Jiren. It is logically impossible for Jiren to be sweating from something he would never have had trouble with to begin with.

It is VERY logical to assume Vegeta, who trained his raw power in base all the time, and went into the time chamber twice, is stronger in SSB than Goku is without Kaioken. It's the same situation as always. Goku's base, when Vegeta gets new forms, is always weaker, and he can only ever rely on efficency of transformations. It's not raw base power he's ever been ahead in. He's had to do things like Kaiokens and SS forms. He's never fought Vegeta in base until that slight minor irrelevant tussle in Ressurection F, since the Saiyan Saga. He only ever fought in SS forms with him one time, as Majin Vegeta, and Vegeta seemed to have a bit of an edge. Goku was doing well. But the edge was clearly with Vegeta. It was Vegeta who was able to do things like pin Goku using those halo things, and Goku couldn't even blow them off. He had to just rip the boulders out with them still on until he smashed Vegeta with the boulders to lose focus.