Talk:The Tier List/@comment-32774261-20180120155001/@comment-32271305-20180125152734

When a card gets +100% ATK and counters with tremendous power, you really can't ignore its counterattacks when you talk about damage output, everything should be taken into consideration. I've seen SSJ2 Vegeta & Bulma take SSJ4 Goku out completely by themselves, and Gogeta would never be able to do that.